The Derby Conundrum

[jwgh]

Manfire:

What was it that gave rise to the olden-days cartoon cliche that urban tough guys go around wearing striped rugby shirts and derby hats, and when they get ready to fight they tilt the hat forward on their head?

jwgh:

Perhaps it was the fashion at the time?

Manfire:

Perhaps.

jwgh:

Did they do that in Guys & Dolls?

Manfire doesn't remember anything like that happening in Guys & Dolls.

talysman:

I think it's based on something in the 1890s.

Manfire:

What made me think of this was recalling that as of the 1960s, Casper The Friendly Ghost's "tuff" counterpart Spooky was still wearing a derby.

Manfire:

And note the forward tilt to Spooky's hat.

talysman:

They're supposed to be irish, I know that.

Manfire:

I recall that the cartoon characters would make a fist with one hand while tilting the hat forward with the other hand.