menace to society

[jwgh]

Hey, here's a poll brought about by thinking about certain things too much!

[Poll #707665]

Comments

[stumpsforhands.livejournal.com]

I'm an atheist, and while I don't necessarily meet with prejudice for that on a regular basis, I know there are hundreds of thousands, even millions of other Americans who would hate me immediately for my godlessness. It sort of makes me sick.

[jwgh]

Yes, this article: http://abcnews.go.com/Technology/story?id=1786422&page=1 is one of the things that led me to make this poll. It is strange knowing that many people think you want to destroy the country.

I was also thinking about the hearings about gay marriage held by the Rhode Island legislature last week.

[stumpsforhands.livejournal.com]

Wow, I want to vomit.

[stumpsforhands.livejournal.com]

I should mention, though, in a weird defense of those that hate me, that it's not fair to compare distrust of atheists to distrust of blacks or homosexuals, or other groups that are identified by genetics, conditions of being with which they were born and cannot change, since that has less to do with who they are than their belief systems. Although it doesn't excuse the apparently rampant belief that all atheists are evil, drug-addicted criminals who have no morals and survive on a steady diet of Christian babies. I can say as an atheist that none of those things are true about me. I am concerned with ethics and the well-being of my fellow man; I do not drink of do any drugs; and I don't even like the taste of Christian babies. They're too gamey; I prefer Jew babies.

[jwgh]

A friend who was at the hearings said that those opposed to gay marriage tended to use terms like 'homosexual agenda', 'social experiment', and 'lifestyle choice'. I think in general people who don't like homosexuals usually describe sexual preference as a choice rather than as a genetic thing. (Although I don't think that they necessarily consider themselves to have chosen to be straight, with some exceptions.)

Racism is different, but most everyone denies being racist. For instance, here is a noted non-racist.

[ceruleanst.livejournal.com]

This is part of the problem. We're supposed to believe in freedom of choice in this country, but there's this idea going around that you don't have any rights unless your minority status is inborn. A lot gay rights activists hate bisexuals because it undermines their case that sexuality is 100% inborn and just like race. Why does it have to be just like race?

I'm a fvcking furry. Oh noes, sexy cartoons. When I want people to stop spreading lies, calling for our extermination, et cetera, I'm told "shut up, you're not oppressed, you're not a real minority, so you have no right to complain when we attack you." If I didn't have the right to complain, react or fight back, if I really had to sit there and take it, wouldn't that mean I was oppressed? I'm not, of course, though they are trying their hardest to make it so, so I will stand up for my right to say, do, and believe what I please just like everyone else.

Aside from that, is atheism really something you could choose to change if you wanted to? You don't have to born with something to be stuck with it.

[stumpsforhands.livejournal.com]

I'm not saying the line isn't fine, I'm just saying there's a difference. Not all forms of discrimination are the same, and they shouldn't be treated the same.

[ceruleanst.livejournal.com]

I don't know. This should have nothing to do with the differences of how severe or prevalent the instances of past and present discrimination are for different groups. To say that what constitutes discrimination against a black person is different than what constitutes discrimination against an atheist person is to say that the human rights of two kinds of people are different, that a black theist and a white atheist do not have the same rights.

[stumpsforhands.livejournal.com]

It doesn't have anything to do with severity or prevalence. They're too difference kinds of discrimination. Surely you can see the difference between judging a person based on what the believe and judging a person based on their skin color.

[cgoldfish.livejournal.com]

first: i am female
secondly: i am athiest
thirdly: i am both gay and not gay
fourthly: i am jewish


all in all - many people hate many aspects of me. some people hate all.

[stumpsforhands.livejournal.com]

"gaythiestjewess"

Another kickass bandname!

[cgoldfish.livejournal.com]

now i just need to get the band back together.

[jwgh]

I think you are the band!

[christychristy.livejournal.com]

Most people are probably beyond someone's/some group's pale.

[jwgh]

It is true.

Bah, humbug

[palecur.livejournal.com]

I answered 'no.' I think it's because I interpreted your question too narrowly. I think, taken more broadly, anyone could answer 'yes', and that seemed somewhat not-useful. I suppose some folks would in fact object to my Catholic-inflected lowercase-p indifferent paganism, substantial fraction of aboriginal ancestry, and general lack of concern over people's romantic plumbing arrangements, but I don't consider them 'substantial' or that they generally impinge on my life in any way, so it didn't seem to really fulfill the spirit behind 'a lot of people'. In general, I don't feel a lot of need to go out of my way to find new and exciting ways to label myself oppressed or a victim, and the question does kind of come off as requesting such.

Re: Bah, humbug

[jwgh]

It does, doesn't it? Livejournal pollsters threaten America!

[ronebofh.livejournal.com]

Your push polls are pushing my buttons!!!1

[ronebofh.livejournal.com]

I guess it depends on how one feels about the poll. I'm not surprised by the result, but i don't really see anyone trying to marginalize me because i'm godless (and, no, Michael Newdow doesn't count).

[twillis.livejournal.com]

That's because you live in Heathen California, not the good ol' Bible Belt, boy-o.

[ronebofh.livejournal.com]

Hey, i'm paying for the privilege of getting away from you weirdos!

[twillis.livejournal.com]

Yes, because of course there are no weirdos in California at all.

[vampyrecat.livejournal.com]

There are plenty of weirdos, but they are the right kind of weirdos.

[pootrootbeer.livejournal.com]

I was going to answer "no" until I remembered about that survey, and thought of all the people who would stop trusting me if they knew I didn't belong to a church.

[littleamerica.livejournal.com]

At the risk of sounding nit-picky, I think "American society" is a quasi-consensus reality that we choose to believe in when in traffic, participating in a federal exercise like voting or paying taxes, and while watching/reading/hearing the news, but treat with some mixture of contempt and neglect most of the rest of the time.

On the other hand, I may believe this mostly because I live in Santa Fe.

Second, by "a lot" do you mean "a majority?" One per cent of the current census projection is something like three million people; that qualifies as a lot of people in my book, but the opinion of one percent of the population doesn't usually matter in modern America unless they're highly vocal, highly visible, or highly motivated.

[jwgh]

I intentionally left it all pretty vague. If you're asking what I was thinking when I filled out my answers:

'A lot' doesn't imply a majority. Probably what I was going for was: every so often you are in a situation where you are reminded with a certain amount of force that there are people out there who disapprove of you and whatever it is they think you stand for. This could mean that there are a majority of folks out there who think that, or a sizeable enough minority who feel strongly enough about it that they will go out of their way to make their feelings known, or (perhaps most problematically) that the media has decided that it's time to do a bunch of stories about the dangers of people like you.

Off the top of my head, a few examples of people who I suspect get this a lot are: homosexuals, SUV owners, and doctors who perform abortions.

[jwgh]

Also, regarding 'American society', I agree it's not something that people necessarily spend a whole lot of time thinking about, but I think that as a result of that often people reflexively feel that American society reflects, or ought to reflect, what their local community is like -- and so if people don't feel welcomed in their local community they would probably answer 'yes' to my question, even though if they moved someplace else in the US they might feel perfectly welcome and answer 'no'. (Although the role of the media, and the fact that communities can be more dispersed geographically than they were historically, probably makes this scenario less likely than previously.)

[peachcrush.livejournal.com]

I answered "no" thinking "Everyone loves me!"

But then remembered that I'm a fag and make baby jesus cry. :( :(

[cgoldfish.livejournal.com]

pshaw. everyone loves you. even the baby jesus.

yesbut

[vardissakheli.livejournal.com]

that's WHY he cries--he's jealous.

[saucypunk.livejournal.com]

hey, i keep meaning to give you part of the packet Beneficent gave me about what they believe and why they like gay people. I think you'd enjoy it. and hey, you're totally welcome/encouraged to come to church with us sometime!

[christychristy.livejournal.com]

I concur with both Katy and Carrie