The Derby Conundrum

[jwgh]

Manfire:

What was it that gave rise to the olden-days cartoon cliche that urban tough guys go around wearing striped rugby shirts and derby hats, and when they get ready to fight they tilt the hat forward on their head?

jwgh:

Perhaps it was the fashion at the time?

Manfire:

Perhaps.

jwgh:

Did they do that in Guys & Dolls?

Manfire doesn't remember anything like that happening in Guys & Dolls.

talysman:

I think it's based on something in the 1890s.

Manfire:

What made me think of this was recalling that as of the 1960s, Casper The Friendly Ghost's "tuff" counterpart Spooky was still wearing a derby.

Manfire:

And note the forward tilt to Spooky's hat.

talysman:

They're supposed to be irish, I know that.

Manfire:

I recall that the cartoon characters would make a fist with one hand while tilting the hat forward with the other hand.

Comments

Where was buetts when this was being discussed?

[vardissakheli.livejournal.com]

He probably could have told you that Steinbeck (http://www.mrtravers.com/pearl.txt) once wrote:

Kino put on his large straw hat and felt it with his hand to see that it was properly placed, not on the back or side of his head, like a rash, unmarried, irresponsible man, and not flat as an elder would wear it, but tilted a little forward to show aggressiveness and seriousness and vigor. There is a great deal to be seen in the tilt of a hat on a man.

Me, I had to follow a tricky chain of Google searches starting with "hat tilt derby irish fight" to get there. Also, I don't know where the word "hat" shows up here, (http://www.everything2.com/index.pl?node=tilt), but I do have to wonder if the hat is what's referred to when a poker player's said to be "on tilt." (http://www.twoplustwo.com/mmessay22.html)

Re: Where was buetts when this was being discussed?

[jwgh]

Hmmm ... do you suppose that the fall in popularity of this convention is due to the rise of the baseball cap?

I thought you said

[vardissakheli.livejournal.com]

"the fall in popularity of this conversation." That is all.